The avenue of chestnuts at Nether Green was planted for the Queen’s Coronation, as well as the cherry trees given to each member of the WI, only a few of which remain (there is one outside Hallcliffe on Church Green), and the now very fine copper-beech also on the Green. This was part of a wave of tree planting for decoration rather than utility starting in the 1950s and 1960s.
Nearly everyone that knew these chestnuts was sad when, in ones and twos, they had to be cut down because of disease. The Parish Council undertook a very well advertised poll of the village in January and February of this year to decide what to do next. There was strong support for replanting an avenue of trees (see Parish Council Minutes for March of this year: “The results were: 13 votes for no replacement trees, 3 votes for trees only on the Nethergreen side and 37 votes for an avenue of trees on both sides.“).
It has been resolved to replant in September, with the Peak Park reimbursing the Council for the cost of the actual trees, but not the cost of the work. The Peak Park insist that the one surviving chestnut tree remain. From subsequent Minutes I am not sure if the new avenue is to be Alder, as initially resolved, or Lime trees, as advised by the Peak Park’s tree officer.
What follows is very much my personal view and does not in any way reflect the opinions of the Blog or the Blog Team, further it is in no way intended as a criticism of the Parish Council, who have put a lot of work into striving to reach the right decision for the Village:
This poll will only remain open for only one week, so vote by Thursday 15th August. Here are some recent photographs of Nether Green, as it currently is, with only the one chestnut tree left:I hesitate to raise again the issue of the avenue of trees at Nether Green, it having been clearly decided by a community vote. Having voted myself for the trees to be replanted on both sides of the road, I was at the time strongly in favour of the avenue being replanted. However over the intervening months, I have found myself increasingly valuing the open space left by the loss of the chestnuts. Several people have also said the same to me, and that it is a return to the open views so characteristic of the Village as seen in old photographs, prompting me to write this.
Obviously it is not fair raising this again with the Parish Council, especially given all the work they have undertaken in the running the initial vote, planning action, agreeing funding from the Peak Park and arranging contractors, unless there is a substantial number of people who have like me have changed their minds. Please add your views, via the Poll below and by adding a comment.
Thank you for reading this, Peter T
PARWICH.ORG 
This reminds me of a vote that was taken in Ireland,over the European union, initially the Irish people voted no thank you. But the government were not going to have the result of NO and the people were told they should vote again until the government got the decision they wanted.
YOU vill vote again and again till you get it right
Democracy in all its glory
Terry, I agree with you, hence the title ‘an unreasonable suggestion’.
But I should also point out the Parish Council has no part in this vote, and would be totally reasonable in completely ignoring it. At present I image they are justifiably annoyed that this post has appeared. Also this poll does not represent any action by the Blog Team. It is unfortunately confusing that I am a Blog Team member in this instance acting as a private individual.
The only status this poll has, is me as a private individual asking, if only I, and the handful of people I have spoken to, have changed our minds about the Nether Green avenue, or if this is more general.
If you feel we should stick to the official vote held earlier this year, which is much more reasonable than my position, I would be grateful if you could indicate this in the poll above.
I too have changed my mind – originally voting for trees, I feel the open space is a real asset. In some ways we have been fortunate to experience both options. I have just registered my vote in the informal poll, and really dont feel as my arm is being twisted! Thanks Peter for giving this an airing…..
..and just think Terry – no trees for the burglers to hide behind ! win-win :o)
Graham, most suprised at you, cheap jibes about the burglers hiding behind trees, when one young chap in the village may have to go to the expense of replacing his mowing machine.( as I pointed out earlier on the blog, I did warn that burglary could go up if you turn off street lights, and it appears to be the case)
My point being, when a vote has taken place ,irespective of wether people change there minds at a later date, the decision has to stand, this could look as though the parish council are being undermined. We cannot keep going back to the government of th day and say sorry weve changed our minds we want another general election, if only
Mmmm… For me there is no contest – I really miss that glorious welcoming avenue of trees that seemed to guide me into the village like a pair or arboreal arms. Their varying cloaks were big indicators of the coming seasons. As an open space it doesn’t seem to have any particular virtue – it’s just a peculiar, unlevel shape bisected by a rough track.
However, I do take issue with the Peak Park’s ruling to keep the one remaing chestnut tree and would love to know their reasoning behind it. It seems neither fish nor fowl to have an avenue of evenly matched avenue of trees with one much larger tree of another variety!
Sorry, typed this on a small screen without my glasses and I now see there are some typo errors and a predictive text that does NOT know best!
I guess the above proves it’s a subjective issue – but I don’t understand why we can’t we revisit decisions in the light of new evidence?
Looking at all the evidence,and the fact that the village voted for the trees to be replanted, I do not see why the trees have to be full growing species, when there are very nice ornamental trees that could be planted, these type off trees only grow to a hieght of approx 20ft, I do not see why anyone would object to this option
I prefer the openness of Nethergreen without the trees. I enjoy seeing the setting of the village surrounded by hills. The very formality of an avenue of trees feels wrong in a rural village context. Fine in a town or city, or in a formal estate or entrance to stately home, but inappropriate here. As Peter says, when we look back at photographs of the village prior to the 1950s, this was very much an open area. By keeping it open we would be helping to conserve the appearance of the village.
I completely understand, and welcome,Terry P’s astute observations regarding serial plebiscite in order to achieve the objectives of those averse to the outcome of a democratic process on a specific issue. Terry P draws attention to a point central to the principles of practical democracy, even in microcosm, as here. I have a few questions: (1) why, when the “people have spoken” is this being revisited so soon and via alternative means? (2) is the local mechanism of democracy in England, ie Parish Councils, flawed, or out-dated, in the new online era? Should the system be changed, or perhaps augmented in partnership with Parwich.org? (3) Is this an exceptional case, such that the evidence available at the time of the original decision was insufficient, flatly wrong, or misrepresented? Do please forgive me if I am ignorant of the processes which led to the original decision on this.
Notwithstanding issues of good public governance, I have to admit that my personal preference would be to preserve the “new” open space in Parwich: it gives the village breathing room; is a vernacular feature of the Peak District village setting, against which a formal avenue of trees militates. No, the grand gesture is more appropriate for Derbyshire’s fabulous country houses and their estates.
Anthony, as said above, no criticism of the Parish Council was intended in this post, they made every effort to establish the views of the community. The only change is that we have had a period of time to adjust to the previous avenue having been cut down. What initially was perceived as a gap, has, for some at least, become seen as a positive open space.
This post is not addressed to the Parish Council, but to the community, trying to establish if the number of people who have changed their mind over the last six months is significant or not. Only, if it can be clearly demonstrated there has been a significant change in the community’s wishes, should this be taken to the Parish Council.
I didn’t read your post as a criticism of the Parish Council at all Peter. In the grand scheme of things, this is trivial, but I thought your comments and reasoning altogether compelling; furthermore, it was rather courageous of you, knowing the sensitivities. However, I was struck by the means by which you re-opened this issue, in a way which by-passes established local democratic processes. One couldn’t deny that your approach was novel; and it quite obviously challenges the status quo. My question is: is the grass-roots system of local democracy broken?
My gut-feeling says that there is nothing wrong with Peter, as an individual, raising this issue again, having had the benefit of a period where residents have been able to experience the openess of the area now the trees have been cut down.
I also agree that the Parish Council should not feel that they are under any obligation to take any note of the outcome of this new discussion, unless there was an absolute landslide change of mind by a substantial number of residents perhaps? After all, the PPC went to great length to gauge the opinion of the village in the first place.
Personally, I still support re-planting the area with a few trees, but would not opt for ‘a formal avenue of trees’. The road is not an entrance to an estate and neither is there the generous space (on the side of the football pitch) to do justice to ‘an avenue’. I think my preference would be for trees to be re-planted on the N-side only, choosing the position carefully to allow for optimum sight-lines for local residents.
I would not want to go back to the openess of the 1950th – wasn’t that partly the result of excess felling of trees to satisfy the demand for wood during the war years – correct me if I am wrong?!
I also have another concern at the back of my mind – what is the landscape going to look like if we will be loosing lots of ash trees in and around Parwich as a result of the ash dieback? Shouldn’t we re-planting tree(s) where this is reasonable?
And lastly, the Lime tree gets my vote!
I have just read the start of Peter’s post again ‘……..The avenue of chestnuts at Nether Green was planted for the Queen’s Coronation, as well as the cherry trees given to each member of the WI, only a few of which remain ….’.
I believe that the cherry tree in the small garden of Croft Cottage was also one of the trees planted to celebrate the Queen’s Corononation.
When, some 10 years ago, the tree started to show signs that it had become diseased, shedding some branches and dying back, as well as having out-grown its space, the tree trunk was transformed by Andrew Frost, the wood sculptor, into a sculpture of a wise old owl. I’m sure the Queen would have approved…!
Following the above comments, here are some photographs of the Parwich village-scape showing various levels of tree cover at various times and locations, the first was sent in by John F-S:
Above from Arthur Mee (1937) “Derbyshire” in “the King’s England” series, and below various photos from Isabel Combes (2003) “Spirit of Parwich” taken around 1900, the first being of Nether Green:
Although open views have been characteristic of the Village, so was the presence of trees. Although I now feel the Nether Green avenue should not be replanted I suspect it may be possible to use the ‘historic appearance’ argument either way?
A most thoughtful and well-researched post Peter, thank you. Trees, why yes: everyone loves trees, have celebrated, even worshipped, them since earliest recorded human history. This isn’t about trees, though goodness knows we need to give them all the help they can get given the diseases which have killed elm in their millions across Britain and imminently threaten our noble ash trees. Can anyone imagine a landscape here without ash trees?
No, this is about a formal arrangement of trees in the context of an ancient Peak District village. Parwich isn’t a country estate; the village needs to preserve and enhance its distinctive character in these enlightened times, however long ago an aspiring, grandiose idea was thought to be a good thing for Parwich.
The recent poll, here at parwich.org, demonstrates a sizeable number of people have changed their minds about the idea of replanting an avenue on Nether Green, with 36 votes (52%) against replanting and 33 (48%) for replanting. (This contrasts with 13 votes (25%) against to 40 (75%) for some form of replanting, in the official Parish Council survey early this year.) The arguments given against replanting were:
however in general there appears to be a consensus that the main factor in people’s decisions was personal taste.
Perhaps this is in the most unsatisfactory range of possible results. I agree with Saskia’s comment “that the Parish Council should not feel that they are under any obligation to take any note of the outcome of this new discussion, unless there was an absolute landslide change of mind by a substantial number of residents“. My personal opinion is that the current poll, especially given potential difficulties interpreting on-line polls (in this case we can not identify what proportions of voters are or are not local residents), does not give a large enough majority to warrant asking the Parish Council to reverse a decision based on their own official survey.
So, despite having confirmed my suspicion that a substantial number of people have changed their minds about replanting and continuing to feel we should not replant, my personal recommendation is that the community take no further action but leave the Parish Council to get on with implementing their existing decision. I certainly do not envy them having to choose a specific variety of either lime or alder, as this will majorly impact on how formal or naturalistic the new avenue will appear.
Nevertheless of one thing I am sure, that in fifty or sixty years time, the community will have as much affection for the new avenue as we did for the old chestnuts.
I do not know why, since writing the above, the poll has allowed a further vote. The poll was created on the 8th of August and was set to run for one week, checking the polls settings, they remain the same.
The reason for setting the poll to be open for just one week was so that any period of uncertainty was kept to a minimum. Presumably it is running from the date of publication rather than creation, and will only accept further votes today. My apologies for any confusion this causes.
In a nutshell.!!!!!
The solution is as plain as the nose on your face,should the first poll prove
inconclusive a further poll should be held before the next poll which if conclusive will eradicate a need for the first poll which would be necessary
to reach a result from the figures of the second poll anyway Notwithstanding a third poll may prove that the second poll was a waste of time as the first poll
shows the majority is greater than the minority who want a fourth poll to confirm the outcome of the first poll which proved the need for a poll in the first place.
Exactly!